Dating Hijabers (Women who wear head scarfs.)

[Mister Bule]

Sure. There are thousands (if not millions) of "non-religious Muslims" just as there are of "non-religious Christians".

Obviously the "Muslim" women who married all these kuffar bule don't regard their religion strongly enough that it prevents them from doing so, as it should.

The OP was specifically talking about women who follow Sunnah and wear the hijab. Though some Muslimah probably do wear the hijab more for superficial and social purposes than out of true devotion, it is generally seen as a sign of the latter, and in many cases it is.

Women who are sufficiently devoted to Islam to follow Sunnah (as well as some who don't cover, yet are still religious, like my wife) would not marry fake "converts" unless they have somehow been deceived into believing the sincerity of the conversion.

[lantern]

Personally I think that if the guy has a strong religious upbringing or beliefs before he married then its easier for him to adapt to a new religion, whereas someone who hasn't really had a strong religious upbringing would find it difficult to suddenly adapt to a new belief structure without feeling like a hypocrite or a fake especially given some of the criteria required for being a muslim.

I find it somewhat astonishing that there are those who had no religious upbringing and yet in adulthood they suddenly start to believe in reincarnation, heaven, resurrections, winged horses, angels, and engage in North Korean style Dear Leader worship daily.

[lantern]

Sure. There are thousands (if not millions) of "non-religious Muslims" just as there are of "non-religious Christians".

What exactly is a non-religious Muslim? If a Muslim has ceased to believe then they are in the same boat as the "fake converts". They both think it's all baloney but continue with the charade to appease or for administrative purposes.

[BurningLady]

I am Muslim , wear hijab also. And once dated bule as well. In my opinion, as long as he's polite and appreciate me he's always be a good man.
Step by step, I told him about "my rules" about relationship with "east style" and he accepted
From some of my ex. I like when a relationship with bule. Maybe because they have a different mindset, bule more realistic, easy to understand me and appreciate every effort , my opinion & know how to treat us..

I hope my english can be better

Cheers,
Julie

[martindo]

Good question. If a woman wears a hijab proudly in public, does that necessarily mean she prays 5 times a day?

If she prays diligently 5 times a day but doesn't wear a hijab except during ceremonial occasions, is that religious or not?

This kind of conundrum is precisely the problem ignored by superficialists who prefer to judge by appearances, live only by rules.

[BurningLady]

Good question. If a woman wears a hijab proudly in public, does that necessarily mean she prays 5 times a day?

If she prays diligently 5 times a day but doesn't wear a hijab except during ceremonial occasions, is that religious or not?

This kind of conundrum is precisely the problem ignored by superficialists who prefer to judge by appearances, live only by rules.

For me, hijab is my identity..
Regardless of diligent prayer or not, hijab shows that we are Muslims. A hijaber may not be diligent in prayer, But a diligent prayers of course they knew their duty to "menutup aurat" / wear hijab..

Just my opinion

[whatever]

Good question. If a woman wears a hijab proudly in public, does that necessarily mean she prays 5 times a day?

No, because even I am not that perfect to make it full 5 times each day. But I always try my best to pray 5 times. I would feel irritated when I can't pray.

If she prays diligently 5 times a day but doesn't wear a hijab except during ceremonial occasions, is that religious or not?

I can't answer this. I am not sure what 'religious' means. Because same as praying 5 times every day, covering aurat is also an obligation, but many Muslimah do not realize that or know but 'not ready' for that. So, this is hard for me to answer. I wear headscarf, true, but I cannot say I am not a sinner. All I can do is to do better and live my life the best I can. So whatever people think about Hijabers, I totally understand. You might say it is a reflection of her true belief or muse or fashion statement or camouflage or whatever really, I cannot deny or agree to it because in reality it is like, umm, I can't say it in English... I believe that apa yang seseorang pakai tidak bisa mencerminkan siapa dia 100%. In this case, pilihan untuk berjilbab bisa jadi tidak murni karena Allah (dengan berbagai alasan) dan setiap manusia berbeda. Dan saya tidak mau mencampuri urusan mereka karena saya percaya itu adalah pilihan mereka, biarkan itu menjadi rahasia hatinya dan Allah. Jika salah satu dari mereka adalah orang dekat saya, saya akan coba bicara, tapi kalau tidak, saya sama sekali tidak mau ikut campur. One thing for sure, semua agama tidak ada yang salah, yang salah adalah yang menjalankannya.

Anyone who understand this, I would be happy if you could translate it for us all. If you can't then just Google translate it

[whatever]

My view on 'fake converts':
As bad as faking a faith or conversion, I, as a woman, still appreciate the effort to at least fake it. Why? Because faith, beliefs is something very personal and nobody can change it. It is in our heart. If I was in your shoes, and you asked me to convert to Christian / Catholic / Hindu, I am not sure if I would even fake (fake convert) it. Because it is in my heart. Even if I learn the religion for 647590 years, if it doesn't come to me, to my heart, then it won't happen.

On the other hand, I am sad to see the reality of fake converts. But then again back to my statement above, it is very personal and not even yourself can change it in a blink of an eye. Hence I understand why it is hard. So, all I can say is, that is your business with yourself and whatever or whoever you believe.

PS: I too appreciate those who converted plus undergone a circumcision. I just can pray that someday you find what you really want or believe in your life. Peace.

[whatever]

Im not a moslem, but if i may comment, i think the most important is your heart.

I agree. Whoever the girl is, a Hijaber or non Hijaber, a Muslim or non Muslim, the most important thing is to be genuine and sincere to her.

[martindo]

Dan saya tidak mau mencampuri urusan mereka karena saya percaya itu adalah pilihan mereka, biarkan itu menjadi rahasia hatinya dan Allah.

"And I don't want to interfere with their business because I believe it is their choice, so let it be a secret of their heart and Allah."

Yes, that is my point. It is a secret of the human heart. Only Allah can judge. Humans who claim to judge are pretending to be Allah.

[whatever]

"And I don't want to interfere with their business because I believe it is their choice, so let it be a secret of their heart and Allah."

Yes, that is my point. It is a secret of the human heart. Only Allah can judge. Humans who claim to judge are pretending to be Allah.

Thank you for the translation M . And I agree with you.

[DanInAceh]

Good question. If a woman wears a hijab proudly in public, does that necessarily mean she prays 5 times a day?

If she prays diligently 5 times a day but doesn't wear a hijab except during ceremonial occasions, is that religious or not?

This kind of conundrum is precisely the problem ignored by superficialists who prefer to judge by appearances, live only by rules.

"Keeping up appearances" is not particularly important in Islam as it is widely known by Muslims that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) knows you better than you know yourself. Now, that is not to say that keeping up appearances is not important to Muslims as fallible humans, but the religion is based primarily on intention.

It is this concept of intention that helps inform how pious a Muslim really is. If you wear the hijab with the intention of fashion or pleasing your parents, it may not be accepted. Similarly, if you pray with distractions and do so to please others, it may not be accepted. Being a "faker" is not productive, and ultimately means you have wasted your time.

Remember that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) does not need your prayers at all. The prayers are not for His benefit; they are for yours. The old man who witnessed my shahada, Dr. Kazi, told me something very wise a few days later when he was teaching me how to perform salat. He said to me, "just as you must eat three times a day (an arbitrary number, but I knew what he was talking about) your soul must pray five times a day." In retrospect, I have found this to be true. On days where I lapse, where salat has been missed due to a faulty alarm clock or my own carelessness about time I feel ... different. Something is amiss in my schedule, it is amiss in my Islam.

Before a Muslim begins to pray, the very first thing he or she must do is express their intention from the heart to pray to Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). You must remember that a Muslim is literally a slave, we are "submitters." This concept is offensive to Western ears, but it is the truth of the matter. That is how Muslims self-identify, it is the essence of Islam.

Another friend of mine, an American, shared with me his reasons for being a Muslim. He was a former addict, and he told me once that he has a "criminal mindset." He explained it like this, "I can lie to everyone else, but I cannot lie to someone who knows everything."

It kept him honest.

[DanInAceh]

"And I don't want to interfere with their business because I believe it is their choice, so let it be a secret of their heart and Allah."

Yes, that is my point. It is a secret of the human heart. Only Allah can judge. Humans who claim to judge are pretending to be Allah.

martin, humans must warn one another. This is spelled out in the Qur'an on many, many occasions. A Muslim indeed must warn other Muslims about their incorrect behavior.

What we cannot do is tell someone something like, "you ARE going to hell." You can say, "you are in danger of going to hell." The difference is that we are fearful for their chances when we see an activity that we know to be harmful to their belief.

Christianity, on the other hand, is a big fan of the dubious tales of "judge not lest ye be judged." At least modern Christianity, I should say, as that crap was added much later.

Anyway, Muslims are free to be a little bit judgmental.

[martindo]

Dan, everyone is free to be judgmental. You're right, it is part of being human. My question is how awake are we to judgments like "you have wasted your time" which appears to be made from a very limited perspective.

You don't know what a person's whole life is, was, or will be. A statement like that may look "definitive" and "in line with spiritual authority" but it is presumptuous, like someone who doesn't know what an oven is and thinks it is a "waste of time" that something is cooking and is not yet edible.

[Mister Bule]

If a woman wears a hijab proudly in public, does that necessarily mean she prays 5 times a day?

No.

If she prays diligently 5 times a day but doesn't wear a hijab except during ceremonial occasions, is that religious or not?

Yes, if the prayer is made sincerely, because prayer is a manifestation of religiosity. So is wearing hijab for Muslim women, if it's done for the right reasons.

But a woman who does not pray diligently five times a day and does not follow Sunnah (in wearing hijab) can still be quite religious and devoted to Allah.

As Dan says, intention and the state of one's heart is most important, even though Muslims are obligated to follow all rules, prescriptions and prohibitions.

No Muslim is perfect. Religion is only necessary for sinners, not for saints.