Buying property under my Indonesian wife name

[sinjuha]

Hi,

We are planning to buy a house with piece of land from my wife's home city. Actually, we already paid deposit and will finalise the deal in coming weeks. Someone recently told me that since we are married I actually become co-owner of that property & land, and that's illegal since I am foreigner and because of that we should have prenup. Is it really like this ? What are the consequences if we don't have prenup and we buy the this house ?

John

[K&M]

You need to sell within one year I think.
What was told you is correct,. Only way around it divorce, prenup and marry again

[Hombre de Maiz]

The Faustian choice facing Indonesians when marrying non-Indonesians is this: Give up your claims to join-ownership of your husband's estate (aka prenup), or give up your right to own land in your own country.

Yes, I think you have a year to dispose of the property.

[sinjuha]

Oh well, that sounds pretty bad then ! Is there anything that can be done after marriage or is the prenup Before marriage only way of doing it ?

[jstar]

Postnup does not exist.

In fact the notary should have advised you about this, but it's no surprise he/she didn't. The sh!t could hit the fan the moment you decide to sell the property or when your spouse passes away. (Normally the 1 year rule only goes into effect when you inherit a property.)

There is no active witch hunt (yet?) on those who have shared ownership (WNI + WNA).

[sinjuha]

The sh!t could hit the fan the moment you decide to sell the property or when your spouse passes away. (Normally the 1 year rule only goes into effect when you inherit a property.

So, we should be fine as long as my wife doesn't die before me ? What could be the problem, if we decide to sell the property ?

[jstar]

What could be the problem, if we decide to sell the property ?

The thing is, when purchasing, the spouse (=you) is not required to sign the AJB. But at selling the property you are required to co-sign (seller+spouse).

So this way it's easy for a notary to overlook the issue at purchase. And the Land Agency (BPN) only gets to see the Indonesian identity card. The BPN doesn't know that the Indonesian (WNI) has a foreign (WNA) spouse, the certificate will only show that she is married. (Or not: very often the KTP still mentions the status as unmarried, they don't change it.)

When you guys want to sell the property, there might be issues. BPN knows the woman is married from the land certificate. And when selling, the rule is that the wife and husband must both sign the AJB. So then the truth comes out. But it is not a given that BPN will notice that something is not kosher. Also, many people were in a a similar situation and have bought and sold property without problems.

But if you don't want to take the risk, consider this: Do you guys have a child (with double nationality)? Any member of the family-in-law you really trust? How long do you plan to own the property (changing laws)?

[marcus]

...Someone recently told me that since we are married I actually become co-owner of that property & land, and that's illegal since I am foreigner ...

If you don't have a prenup/separated wealth , everything you buy during the marriage is jointly owned by you two . So if you buy this house/land , even if in your wife's name you will also own 50% of it , which is illegal as foreigners cannot own Indonesian land .

------------------------------------------------------

Undang-undang Republik Indonesia
Nomor 1 Tahun 1974
Tentang Perkawinan
(Marriage Law)
...................................

BAB VII
HARTA BENDA DALAM PERKAWINAN
Pasal 35
(1) Harta benda yang diperoleh selama perkawinan menjadi harta bersama
(Properties acquired during the marriage are jointly owned)
(2) ...

-------------------------------------------------------

(non official translation)
Article 21 of Land Law (UU5 - 1960)

(1) Only Indonesia citizens can have land rights.
(2) ....
(3) ....
(4) ....

[sinjuha]

When you guys want to sell the property, there might be issues. BPN knows the woman is married from the land certificate. And when selling, the rule is that the wife and husband must both sign the AJB. So then the truth comes out.

If the truth comes out on the moment of selling, what are sanctions for me and for my wife ?

At this moment our plan is to keep the house for unlimited time - no plans really to sell it again. We don't have any plans to live there permanently, so it will be our holiday home only. We do have someone in family-in-law, who we can really trust. For sure one solution would be to buy house under his name.

[Davita]

We do have someone in family-in-law, who we can really trust. For sure one solution would be to buy house under his name.

The above might be your best solution.
I have just done the same in Bali....my wife's nephew is the nominee owner but we paid for it, hold the documents and live in the villa.
This entails a trust situation but we have accepted the risk.

[Pimpin]

The most secure way is divorce and remarry again, this time creating the pre-nup beforehand.

You never know what can happen with a person you trust. One could find later they are suddenly at their mercy and then have to jump through hoops for them or worst yet for whatever reason, they decide to sell the property and keep the coin. I wonder how many people were in utter shock when the person they trusted and would never let them down, did just that.

[DanInAceh]

The most secure way is divorce and remarry again, this time creating the pre-nup beforehand.

You never know what can happen with a person you trust. One could find later they are suddenly at their mercy and then have to jump through hoops for them or worst yet for whatever reason, they decide to sell the property and keep the coin. I wonder how many people were in utter shock when the person they trusted and would never let them down, did just that.

I agree with Pimpin. Trust no one. Wealth and property make people absolutely insane.

Divorce your spouse and remarry with the pre-nup if you want to go this route. Don't entertain any other ideas unless you are independently wealthy and don't care about the fallout from tricky relatives

[Pimpin]

My advice stands for any country and no more particularily in this one over the next.

Own it yourself. It's like gambling. Don't wager what you aren't monetarily and psychologicaly/emotionaly, prepared to lose.

[DanInAceh]

At my own peril, I'd say that some countries are much riskier than others. This doesn't have anything to do with some sort of specific ethnic or national characteristic but rather the local economy and desperation. While I'm not particularly surprised that my post was edited, I'm a bit humored that it said "nationality based slur" as if I had called someone some "colorful" (read: offensive) word.

I guess you could more correctly say that it's classist.

But who knows? Maybe I'm actually a racist and I don't even know it. I'm not so blind as to not entertain the possibility that I harbor some sort of prejudicial feelings, but I doubt it?

[Hombre de Maiz]

The double-national child route is not so smooth either. If the child is under age, s/he cannot own property. As soon as s/he reaches age, s/he must decide to become either WNI or WNA. If the latter, s/he cannot own land.