what race is my wife?

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  • Puspawarna
    Banned
    • Dec 2008
    • 10539

    #16
    Originally posted by kenzon11 View Post
    just to make sure, if I input as indonesian . and happen that they label it as malay , my wife wont be happy about that.
    But hopefully she'd be able to laugh it off pretty quickly, since as life problems go, that one is really trivial. We all get upset about trivia (I know I do), but then you just shrug and move on, right?

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    • kenzon11
      Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 30

      #17
      Originally posted by atlantis View Post
      If she is from Tondano I assume that she is Minahasan. Through it is an ethnical group it is what I would answer to the racial question for my wife who is also a Minahasan.

      Alternatively if she is from Sulut and not Minahasan she maybe either be Sanger or Gorontalo but I doubt it. Not many "outsiders" in Tondano.
      just got some info from her birth certh does this shown any race? or is it just birth issue in minahsa? thanks

      "DARI DAFTAR UMUM TENTANG KELAHIRAN MENURUT STBLD.1933 NOMOR 75 DI MINAHASA TERNYATA, BAHWA DI SULUAN PADA TANGGAL XXXXXXXXX"

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      • bad_azz
        Member
        • Feb 2011
        • 7175

        #18
        How many major races are there in the world? A human race is defined as a group of people with certain common inherited features that distinguish them from other groups of people.

        " A human race is defined as a group of people with certain common inherited features that distinguish them from other groups of people. All men of whatever race are currently classified by the anthropologist or biologist as belonging to the one species, Homo sapiens.This is another way of saying that the differences between human races are not great, even though they may appear so, i.e. black vs white skin. All races of mankind in the world can interbreed because they have so much in common. All races share 99.99+% of the same genetic materials which means that division of race is largely subjective, and that the original 3-5 races were also probably just subjective descriptions as well.
        The Major Divisions of the Human Race


        Most anthropologists recognize 3 or 4 basic races of man in existence today. These races can be further subdivided into as many as 30 subgroups.


        Ethnographic division into races from Meyers Konversations lexikon of 1885-90 is listing:


        Caucasian races (Aryans, Hamites, Semites)
        Mongolian races (northern Mongolian, Chinese and Indo-Chinese, Japanese and Korean, Tibetan, Malayan, Polynesian, Maori, Micronesian, Eskimo, American Indian),
        Negroid races (African, Hottentots, Melanesians/Papua, “Negrito”, Australian Aborigine, Dravidians, Sinhalese) "

        However:
        "Another popular division recognizes 4 major races


        The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid. This is based on a racial classification made by Carleton S. Coon in 1962. There is no universally accepted classification for “race”, however, and its use has been under fire over the last few decades. The United Nations, in a 1950 statement, opted to “drop the term ‘race’ altogether and speak of “ethnic groups”. In this case, there are more than 5,000 ethnic groups in the world, according to a 1998 study published in the Scientific American."
        Cicak Magnet

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        • kenzon11
          Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 30

          #19
          Originally posted by kenzon11 View Post
          just got some info from her birth certh does this shown any race? or is it just birth issue in minahsa? thanks

          "DARI DAFTAR UMUM TENTANG KELAHIRAN MENURUT STBLD.1933 NOMOR 75 DI MINAHASA TERNYATA, BAHWA DI SULUAN PADA TANGGAL XXXXXXXXX"
          actually i wanted to put it as chinese which is same as me. as i know many indo-chineses don't speaks mandarin too . so just wondering in anyway will they notices.

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          • jstar
            Member
            • Jul 2011
            • 6054

            #20
            Why make it so difficult? See B_A's post; just use Asian.
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            • bad_azz
              Member
              • Feb 2011
              • 7175

              #21
              Originally posted by jstar View Post
              Why make it so difficult? See B_A's post; just use Asian.
              Indeed... after all it seems a dumb/out-dated question they are asking of you. So respond in kind
              Cicak Magnet

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              • rabbit_39
                Member
                • Sep 2010
                • 4510

                #22
                Here's the thing, in Singapore many things are determined by your race. Kids at school are required to study their "mother tongue". So if they fill in Chinese they'll get lessons in Chinese (Cantonese or Mandarin I'm not sure), and the kids who filled in Malay won't have to take those, but they'll have to take Malay instead.

                And I heard public housing has a race ratio that needs to be kept to ensure diversity, I guess that's one way to avoid gentrification as defined by white hipsters moving in (not just rich hipsters of all races). So you can only sell (or even rent) your public housing apartment to someone of the same race.

                Things like that happens in Singapore, what else, I don't know. THose are the examples I've heard of.

                Comment

                • kenzon11
                  Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 30

                  #23
                  Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                  Here's the thing, in Singapore many things are determined by your race. Kids at school are required to study their "mother tongue". So if they fill in Chinese they'll get lessons in Chinese (Cantonese or Mandarin I'm not sure), and the kids who filled in Malay won't have to take those, but they'll have to take Malay instead.And I heard public housing has a race ratio that needs to be kept to ensure diversity, I guess that's one way to avoid gentrification as defined by white hipsters moving in (not just rich hipsters of all races). So you can only sell (or even rent) your public housing apartment to someone of the same race.Things like that happens in Singapore, what else, I don't know. THose are the examples I've heard of.
                  precisely, that is why I wanted to declare my wife as chinese but worry that the authority may find out. so I must be very careful, I have check the akte lahir aka birth certificate / KTP / KK all not mentioning race. only WNI is mentioned. my wife looks like chinese though. even my indo chinese friend's ktp with names like anton/joni/johan and etc without chinese names. and for the pr application , chinese a higher chance getting approve.

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                  • fastpitch17
                    Member
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 3404

                    #24
                    In the US, University still ask for race on the applications. I asked what you put if a mixed race couple and was told to follow the Mothers side. We did but only needed to put Asian. Mother is Indian/Indonesian. The administrator said, "good choice." Seems by listing as Asian a whole bunch of money became available towards tuition. Especially for the daughter since she was also female.
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                    • jstar
                      Member
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 6054

                      #25
                      Ah, the plot thickens. If it is to apply for PR status in Singapore, officially it would be Malayu. (Options are Chinese, Malayu, Indian, Caucasian.)

                      And honestly, I know all the horror stories that non Chinese are being discriminated, but it is not so bad as some present it. And even in the housing allocation, there is no difference between these two groups. And some elite Chinese schools don't mean there is seggregated education.

                      They don't recognize mixed races btw, so it's always the background of the father that counts. And yes, coming from Manado it would be very easy to make the case her father is from a Chinese background, if you feel the chance of acceptance is higher then.

                      I do think you should look at something like http://forum.singaporeexpats.com

                      There your question has probably been asked a thousand times.
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                      [/FONT]

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                      • LinkH
                        Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 87

                        #26
                        If she's Manado person, I wouldn't say she's 'Chinese'. That wouldn't be honest would it? If she's pure Indonesian Chinese, her parents identified as Chinese, and the family has been intermarrying with Chinese for generations, I'd put Chinese. If she's mixed, I'd put Indonesian, Malay or whatever category Indonesians fit in. As far as I know, Manadonese don't consider themselves to be Chinese, unless they are Chinese or live in Manado. They have some Chinese blood in them, but whatever local stock was there, maybe Spanish, possibly Dutch or whatever else mixed there way back when. Some of them do look Chinese, and they might have some Chinese blood. But I think for Chinese, if one parents is Chinese and the other is Indonesian, you are Indonesian. It's kind of like the opposite of being black in the US back in the slavery or Jim Crow days. Part black was black. For Chinese in Indonesia, part Chinese is not considered Chinese anymore. At least that was my impression. That may be why there was not complete assimilation.

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                        • jstar
                          Member
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 6054

                          #27
                          He doesn't want to be honest, he wants to get her permanent residency.

                          Of course Manadonese and Chinese have nothing to do with each other. And no, there is no Spanish in Indonesia, only Portugese during 50 years before the Dutch came. (That's why there is quite a large group of Catholics.)
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                          • atlantis
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 16594

                            #28
                            Originally posted by jstar View Post
                            And no, there is no Spanish in Indonesia, only Portugese during 50 years before the Dutch came.
                            Come again?
                            The Spaniards were established in the Minahasa around the same time than the Portuguese and have even kicked them out by taking over their fort in Amurang to end up controlling totally the Minahasa and installing the first King of the Minahasa who was a descendant of a Spaniard and a Minahasan.

                            The first coffee seeds planted in the Minahasa and Bolmong/Kotamobagu area were planted by the spaniards who introduced seeds from their colonies in South America. This is the Spanish and not the Portuguese who first established the Minahasa as a commercial hub.

                            Finally the Spaniards gave up their possessions in the Minahasa to the Portuguese in a treaty, but the Minahasan weren't keen about that and thought that the dutch would be fairer to them. By the middle of the 17th century the Portuguese were out and the dutch were the rulers of the Minahasa.

                            I believe that the Spaniards were also involved in the Maluku against the dutch and the Sultanat of Ternate, controlling Tidore in the south for some time, albeit a short period, being quickly overpowered by the Dutch and their local allies. If you visit one day Tidore you will see some (badly preserved) remains of the Spanish presence such as the Tohula fort or the Tole fort. Both were Spanish fortresses (hard to imagine though considering what is left though).

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                            • jstar
                              Member
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 6054

                              #29
                              That is a big misunderstanding; Portugal was part of Spain that period till they revolted in 1640! Secondly, their presence there did not even last 30 years (as of 1622). They stayed longer in Flores etc.

                              And yes, the Spanish did occupy Ternate for one year, armed forces from the Philippines.
                              Last edited by jstar; 21-07-15, 19:35.
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                              • atlantis
                                Banned
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 16594

                                #30
                                Originally posted by jstar View Post
                                Secondly, their presence there did not even last 30 years (as of 1622).
                                My post wasn't mean to argue about history. Just to correct the statement [COLOR=#333333]"there is no Spanish in Indonesia" which was obviously erroneous.
                                If we deny their presence we could perhaps also deny the one of the Portuguese who stayed, as per your words, "only 50 years". Spaniards, along with the Portuguese and the Dutch, were present in Indonesia and tried to extend their influence. At the end, only the dutch remained.

                                A short history of the Minahasa and their presence: [/COLOR]http://www.theminahasa.net/history/timeline/index05id.html
                                For the record, the Spaniards settled in what was then called Wenang, with the help of a tribe which was originating from the islands of Bunaken, and were the first to name Manado (it was named Manados under the spanish rulers).
                                Originally posted by jstar View Post
                                And yes, the Spanish did occupy Ternate for one year, armed forces from the Philippines.
                                I was mentioning Tidore which is not exactly Ternate, jstar. Tidore and Ternate are two different islands, two different suku, two different sultanates at the time and which were not exactly in good terms and which were sharing what is now called Maluku. One was supported by the dutch (Ternate) while the other was allied to... the Spaniards.
                                I think they stayed a bit longer than a year in Tidore. I have visited several time the Maluku and still often visit. From what I remember we are talking about "a few decades" of presence and influence in Tidore. Denying it, if its the intent, is grotesque. It's well documented and there are a few vestiges. They had time to build several forts all around Pulau Tidore.
                                A pretty interesting link about the Spanish presence and influence in the Eastern islands: http://www.colonialvoyage.com/spanis...ernate-tidore/

                                But anyway, we can argue for hours, it won't change the fact that Spanish were in Indonesia and that it isn't really the topic of the thread nor it is useful for the OP.
                                Last edited by atlantis; 21-07-15, 21:55.

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