Foreigner woman pregnant with Indonesian man.. and not married!

[Julia_]

[COLOR=#333333]Hi all,[/COLOR]


[COLOR=#333333]I am a foreigner woman, and have been with my Indonesian Muslim boyfriend for a few months. I am 6 weeks pregnant and we want to have this baby. But we don't live together (I live in HK), we are not married, and I am not Muslim, so we are really worried about his family's reaction, since he is from a little village and people will gossip a lot and he's even worried that everybody will reject him if they know I got pregnant while we're not married. But I don't want to get 'officially' married right away, not until I move to Indonesia (probably next year).[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]So we thought about having a nikah siri, to make the whole situation socially acceptable for my boyfriend's family. I would convert to islam, then get married with the imam and a few witnesses. But I am wondering what rights would my boyfriend and myself have towards our child with the nikah siri only? [/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]Knowing that I would deliver in Europe. I was also wondering who would have legal rights if -God forbid!- we were to break up one day.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]Thanks a lot for your help![/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]Julia[/COLOR]

[waarmstrong]

Personally, being a little bit married is like being a little bit pregnant. If it was me, I would get legally married.

[Jaime C]

It's all up to you. He can always tell his family he got married in HKG. Worry about yourself and the baby first.

[Julia_]

Right, well the plan is to get legally married later, probably next year, when I can move there and have my family come over. But until then, I was just wondering the legal value (if any?!) of a nikah siri, and the rights for my husband-to-be towards his child (again, if any?).

I read that the nikah siri doesn't have any legal value, whether in my country (Belgium) or for the Indonesian government, basically it will only serve our cause in the eyes of my boyfriend's family I guess?

[jstar]

Wat een miserie. You're right in your assessment; if there would only be a ceremony and no (KUA) registration, the marriage would not be (internationally) recognized. It doesn't exist in fact. But it would give you (some) credibility and security. Mainly vis-à-vis the future inlaws and his kampung.

The rights concerning the child are a different matter though: If you give birth in HK or Belgium, you can include the name of the father on the birth certificate. So if things go sour between you two, and you would take the kid back to Europe, he still has rights (and obligations!) according to the local laws. If you don't include him as father on the birth certificate, a DNA test is the only possibility to prove anything which is obviously difficult to demand if both parents reside in a different country.

Getting married after the birth will complicate matters. (I.e. registration in Indonesia, nationality.)

[jave2001]

Right, well the plan is to get legally married later, probably next year, when I can move there and have my family come over. But until then, I was just wondering the legal value (if any?!) of a nikah siri, and the rights for my husband-to-be towards his child (again, if any?).

I read that the nikah siri doesn't have any legal value, whether in my country (Belgium) or for the Indonesian government, basically it will only serve our cause in the eyes of my boyfriend's family I guess?

Nikah siri is actually illegal as marriage is defined under Law No. 1/1974 on marriage. Legally women cannot claim their rights as a wives, the right to housing and post-divorce rights, such as jointly held property. The loss of marital rights will also affect the children born of the unregistered marriage. Also the marriage cannot be later registered with the Civil Registry Office or KUA and as such is not recognised by the state and as a consequence of this children of such unions can be regarded as illegitimate and mothers may find it difficult to obtain birth certificates for them. Even if you get legally married after the child is born, the child will still be considered illegitimate under Indonesian law and will be difficult to get the dual citizenship as a child of mixed marriage. So if you plan on living in Indonesia it would be better for you and your child to marry before he is born.

[atlantis]

Nikah siri is actually illegal

I would rather say that "nikah sirih does not make the marriage legal" rather than "Nikah siri is actually illegal".

[jave2001]

I would rather say that "nikah sirih does not make the marriage legal" rather than "Nikah siri is actually illegal".

Yes your right, I should have explained it this way. The Marriage Law and its derivative rules define a marriage as legitimate if it is conducted according to the laws of an individual religion and the 1974 law clearly stipulates that marriage registration is mandatory and failure to register a marriage is punishable by a Rp7,500 fine, then the failure to register is the offense not the nikah siri itself.

[mrtessster]

Yes your right, I should have explained it this way. The Marriage Law and its derivative rules define a marriage as legitimate if it is conducted according to the laws of an individual religion and the 1974 law clearly stipulates that marriage registration is mandatory and failure to register a marriage is punishable by a Rp7,500 fine, then the failure to register is the offense not the nikah siri itself.

Nika Siri is not an official marriage, therefore not registrable, therefore not punishable. In any case I don't think anyone is going to be concerned over Rp7,500. Have the child in Belgium, with the father's name on the birth certificate. May be better to marry in Belgium as well.

[waarmstrong]

It's all up to you. He can always tell his family he got married in HKG. Worry about yourself and the baby first.

Perhaps timing and cost work against a marriage abroad now, but if the best interests of the child is a motivator, and you intend to marry anyway, a simple civil marriage abroad is an option to consider. Rather than simply telling people you married in Hong Kong, actually get married in HK. The marriage could be later registered in Indonesia, and an Indonesian ceremony could also be arranged later.

[dafluff]

[COLOR=#333333]A simple civil marriage abroad is an option to consider. Rather than simply telling people you married in Hong Kong, actually get married in HK. The marriage could be later registered in Indonesia, and an Indonesian ceremony could also be arranged later.[/COLOR]

Based on the info OP has given, this is the best option. Just have the wedding registered in HK right away, then have it registered in Indonesia when/if you move there. Doing this ensures that the child will have all legal rights he is entitled to in Indonesia.

Further, it is not uncommon for Indonesians who get married abroad to have a wedding ceremony back home at a later date, where they can invite all their friends and family.

[Berlarutlarut]

In HK you need to have two witnesses that know you if I'm not mistaken. Other options are Bangkok (see badazz thread) and Singapore (mandatory 16 days stay there - very expensive). Belgium might be a problem as he owuld need to get a Schengen visa.

As stated above, you really don't want to wait until after the birth - it will complicate the child's life in Indonesia.

[Banana72]

Also- to protect yourself, have a prenup also.

[Coco Oco]

From what I understand from my own experience - you need the official marriage certificate in order to get Indonesian Birth Certificate. So if you plan to stay together than I would do the legal marriage prior to giving birth to avoid problems later

[PhilippeD]

Like Jstar and Coco oco said, getting married after the birth of the kid will cause a lot of problem of the kind you will be allowed to come in Indonesia but not your kid.
Paperwork will be complicate for send him to school, passport, etc...

Nikah Siri is NOT a marriage, it's a religious ceremony for appease the spirit of the appearance of being a good muslim, nothing more, it have NO legal value at all.