American girl in love with an Indonesian boy, how do we make it work?

[missa0985]

Hello all! I
I have been looking online for hours trying to find some helpful information, and I'm amazed at how many people are going through or have been through similar situations! It is very comforting!
Last year while backpacking through Asia, I met and fell in love with an Indonesian boy. I stayed for about 7 months with him, using a VOA that I kept extending. I came back home to USA to I work for a while, and I am flying back in 3 months (can't wait!!).
I'm trying to organize a social budaya, which I know is good for about 6 months. But what can I do after that? I want to stay in Indonesia with him, but it feels like the country is making it so hard to do that! I know there are lots of ways to illegally extend visas (not that I know how), but what's the best way to stay long-term? I am not quite ready for marriage, and i don't know how to bring him here? I don't want to change the island-boy I fell in love with, I'm scared that bringing him here will change that. I also can't imagine him being able to find a job here now, when many Americans can't even find one. But I don't know how to go about finding a job over there either?
He is also s strict Muslim, and I am an aethist...how could we get married?
To the women who have somehow jumped all these hurdles and made it work, how did you do it?!!
Any advice or help would be much appreciated!!

[Sopie]

Well Missa, I wish you the best of luck, not for the relationship but visa process.

Here is a nice program that may give you a six months or a year student visa : http://darmasiswa.diknas.go.id/english/
and http://www.indonesianembassy.org.uk/...waprogram.html

The visa budaya (which is now called short visit permit) is for 2 months and might be extended for 4 months. You have to go throught the process each month : it tooks a week and, it may depends, at least 3 visits in the Indonesian immigration office (and I hope you won't live too far from the office in question). You will have to fill two long formulaires, and joint two formulaires-letters filled by your sponsor, plus another letter from your sponsor, plus photocopies of your passeport, visa, ticket plane. At one point (at the second extension), you have to join two small pictures. Depend where you are and how you have access to a good printer and a sponsor that understand the whole process, it may consume a lot of your energy. And at your third and fourth extensions, you have to visit the immigration office and another governement office (I forgot which one).
Believe me, it sucks. If you have enough money and move in Jakarta or Bali, you can pay an agent who will sponsor you and do the process for you.

So I would strongly recommend to you to give a try to daramasiswa and get a student visa. I have been myself in a relationship for more than 2 years with an Indonesian and I would love to know about this program before to become a professionnal in visa extension... I'm now holding a one year kitas with a work permit because i got a job here, but since 3 months I help two good friends of me in their visa extension. So the informations here are up to date.

Of course, it's a visa, not a work permit.

For the job issue, maybe it could help if you tell us a bit about your professionnal background?

For the religion issue : Good to know that being aethist does not exist in the Indonesia law. So if you want to get marry here, you will have to declare your formal religion. And then get marry in both of them (means two times, one in Islam and the other one in your religion). So you can be formally and legally married. There is a whole category of this forum on the topic.

And watchout the Visa Ikut Suami : In Indonesia, the husband have the legal responsibility and authority on his wife. That means that he have to sign for you on many things, and it may varies from a region to another depend of what it concerns (example here in Gowa the husband have to sign for any medical intervention on his wife, otherwise doctor don't proceed). At the national level, you have to get your husband authorisation each time you want to get out or get in this country.

[missa0985]

Soooo, looking through this forum is making me happy because many others are going through it, but slightly frustrated and scared because everyone is saying it is hard and may not be possible to do what I want!
I checked out the daramasiswa website, but you need to be a college graduate, and I unfortunately dropped out a year shy of that degree. I am in my early 20's and haven't quite figured out a career yet..currently working with computers. I have been saving for a while to go back, but unfortunately I am not extremely wealthy and have the means to open a business or leave the country every month to get a new VOA.
I have some friends in Indonesia who are trying to help sponsor me, but they all say something different about the process and the price! I am afraid I am going to show up and have to turn around in leave in a few months!
I really appreciate your response...have you been through this before as well?

[Mas Fred]

I was talking to my mate the cop who, along with other things, sorts out foreigner related issues in Wonosobo. Mr Muji is a really nice bloke and a credit to the Indonesian police force but sometimes has to act against tourists or assorted foreigners doing naughty things.
One thing considered naughty here is living together outside marriage. You are, if Mr Muji is any measure, not going to get into anything more serious than being told not to live together until you're married but this ain't the west and that's something I've seen a couple of times in the last few months.
As for religion, just convert to Islam on paper. Hardly ideal but it would be acceptable in law.
As for not ready for marriage. If not don't make a massive move to another country. Its pretty much as serious a move as you can get short of marriage and, if he is really strict, he will want it before you sleep together anyway.
Marriage will make paperwork easier too. bar exceptional problems, a visa is pretty much guaranteed if married.

[kingwilly]

Just come here in and out on visa on arrivals. Simplest process to start with.

[Kratos]

A strict moslem and an atheist, early twenties american girl, what an interesting combination.....

I have to agree with Sophie, why dont you come down here and get yourself in a marriage attachment with your husband, just for the law sake purposes ? Living together outside marriage down here, is tough, especially in villages. You two are in love with each other, whats so hard about blending together down here ? Culture..... As for the Job thingy, you could work as an english teacher, private, let your husband deal with the management side so it looks like you're helpin out someone instead of really 'working'... if we're talkin about surviving...

Remember , one day you must choose where do you really want to live ? US or INDO, because leaving your homeland for this country, oh wow, you're really in love with him arent you ?

[Gratilla]

As for religion, just convert to Islam on paper.

Explains why a lot of "Muslims" are not really Muslim.

[Sopie]

Well, I did not recommend to get marry just to get a visa and stay here. In fact, I think the opposite, and I would say take your time and get to know well him. The situation and the status in the law of a foreign girl married with an Indonesian boy is quite different than for a foreign man with an Indonesian spouse. They got rights on their spouse, while in your case your husband will got rights on you.

I did live with my boyfriend in Makassar, and we told the neighbord we were married. And his family did not mind a lot, maybe some of them but I never knew. We did not sleep in the same bed however, our respective room was on different floor. We took really care about never been catch up! And my relations with his family was excellent, we really like each other! But it's not the kind of move that you make before having evaluate the risks and possibilities. Forget if you live in a small place, Makassar is big enough to allow it but not small city and certainly not village.

Don't stress, learn Bahasa Indonesia and the culture, and see what possibilities you have to earn some money, like teach private lesson of English. Of course it would be naive to think that you can just show up here and already get a peaceful and wealthy life with you man. Sure you'll have to come back in America when your visa will be over, except if you get married fast and got Ikut Suami Visa. That might be a solution if your really sure about your plan to move here. Otherwise I will recommend to you to give a try for 5-6 months before to take the decision to get married.

If your disappoint by some comments on a forum, it may means that your not ready for such an adventure. Living overseas is wonderful but not easy and being in an international love relationship don't make it easier... You should be strong, positive and courageous.

Cheers : )

[Kratos]

Explains why a lot of "Muslims" are not really Muslim.

Majority of corruptors are moslem, most criminals you see on TV are Moslems, Most members at the parliament who went to sleep during formal session are moslem, most people who believe in shamanic rituals down here (eq Merapi or flowerly rituals ) are moslems, list goes on....there are lots of debates whether Islam abangan / NU was actually a group of moslem performing hindu rituals with Moslem's pray ( seven days rituals, 1000 days yasinan, visiting graveyard with flowers, etc)... The original Islams branch called wahabism/Salafiyah was trying to fix some of the mispractice but people ended up refusing them and classify them a separatist and Anti semitic...

But lets not go through racial topic, coz thats just one color in this "Unity in Diversity" country....

Back to Misha, listen carefully to what sophie said....lovin someone overseas is a total adventure....if you said your boy is a strict moslem, forget the idea of bringin condoms or birth pils, sleeping together, etc....Coz if your boy practice those things, he's not strict, he's just normal......either ways, good luck, Indonesia is a 'jungle' country, everythin applies, everything legal, you could find beautiful butterflies and flowers down here , And if you're unlucky enough, tigers, snakes are also available....

but hey, real treasures are usually found in the jungles, rite ?

[El_Goretto]

Majority of corruptors are moslem, most criminals you see on TV are Moslems, Most members at the parliament who went to sleep during formal session are moslem, most people who believe in shamanic rituals down here (eq Merapi or flowerly rituals ) are moslems, list goes on....there are lots of debates whether Islam abangan / NU was actually a group of moslem performing hindu rituals with Moslem's pray ( seven days rituals, 1000 days yasinan, visiting graveyard with flowers, etc)... The original Islams branch called wahabism/Salafiyah was trying to fix some of the mispractice but people ended up refusing them and classify them a separatist and Anti semitic...

But lets not go through racial topic, coz thats just one color in this "Unity in Diversity" country....

Back to Misha, listen carefully to what sophie said....lovin someone overseas is a total adventure....if you said your boy is a strict moslem, forget the idea of bringin condoms or birth pils, sleeping together, etc....Coz if your boy practice those things, he's not strict, he's just normal......either ways, good luck, Indonesia is a 'jungle' country, everythin applies, everything legal, you could find beautiful butterflies and flowers down here , And if you're unlucky enough, tigers, snakes are also available....

but hey, real treasures are usually found in the jungles, rite ?

Race and religion are 2 different things, I don't understand why you are mixing both. On top of that, there is not such things as races. Human being in a race of its own, end of story.


Back to the topic: please don't get married. There are many horror stories of expat males loosing everything to their local wife who screwed them up and that's when the foreign husband has rights on their wife (like mentioned above). If you get married and things go wrong, he will have absolute power on you, you may be stuck in Indonesia against your will...

[lantern]

You said you don't want to change the "island-boy" you fell in love with. Are you in love with a boy who happens to live on an island or with the island-boy concept? In other words, do you think if he was moved to a different stage without the island as a prop you would still love him and want to spend your life with him? Also are you planning to spend the rest of your life on an island with someone you feel is too fragile to move elsewhere?

You may have this all figured out but worth thinking about if you don't.

[Gratilla]

Back to the topic: please don't get married. There are many horror stories of expat males loosing everything to their local wife who screwed them up and that's when the foreign husband has rights on their wife (like mentioned above). If you get married and things go wrong, he will have absolute power on you, you may be stuck in Indonesia against your will...

There are also many horror stories of lovestruck foreign females getting royally (financially) shafted by local boys with an "island mentality".

[atlantis]

At the national level, you have to get your husband authorisation each time you want to get out or get in this country.

Urban legend. That is wrong (aucun sarcasme à ton encontre Sophie )
There is no such law at the national level. Husbands, muslims, christians or whatever have rights on the way their wife manage her assets for example and are head of the household but that's pretty much it. No wife would be bared legally from going where she wants, in the archipelago or outside the archipelago because her husband disagree. Culture may prohibits it, but culture and law are two different things. In short, husbands have a great cultural power but their strictly legal power is not that big.

[Sopie]

Urban legend. That is wrong (aucun sarcasme à ton encontre Sophie )
There is no such law at the national level. Husbands, muslims, christians or whatever have rights on the way their wife manage her assets for example and are head of the household but that's pretty much it. No wife would be bared legally from going where she wants, in the archipelago or outside the archipelago because her husband disagree. Culture may prohibits it, but culture and law are two different things. In short, husbands have a great cultural power but their strictly legal power is not that big.

Thank you Atlantis, I truly value all your comments because I saw on this forum that you seems to have a great bunch of knowledges about indonesian law and justice system!

However, my own information is from www.expat.or.id website, but maybe I understood wrong :

If a foreign wife of an Indonesian is on an ikut suami status and wants to leave Indonesia, she must have a letter stating that her husband has given his permission for her to depart. This letter is needed in order to apply for an exit/reentry permit at the immigration office. This regulation is a formality, but can cause difficulties in the case of a separation, divorce or an attempt to spirit children out of the country.
From : http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarri...#expat%20women

In brief, a kitas give us the right to stay in the country, but if we want to leave and come back in the country during that period of stay, we must apply for a multi-entry permit. And if I understand good, to do it under a kitas ikut suami, the husband should give his authorization.

And I will a bit disagree with the assumption about the cultural versus the law power of the husband. It's true in Jakarta but in many other districts (kebupaten), husband got a lot of formal power over his wife.

In the context of the decentralization process, their is a great deal of various provincial and district laws that regulate rights and obligations of husband and wife in various domains. I strongly recommend to the OP to carefully takes a look to those laws if she plans to get married here, because her situation as wife may vary a lot according the district where she will live. Check also if the local government have adopted sharia regulations, whatever you become muslim or not. Provincials and districts laws can touch your access to health and education services, the management of your assets, your rights in business activities, your rights to ask for divorce or leave the house, and your obligations and rights regarding your children as parent.

Example : Here in the district where I live (where their is no sharia regulations), husband have to give his authorization for almost everythings regarding his children AND his wife : medical intervention, inscription at school and universities, open a small business, open a bank account and get a grant, (almost all things that i'm able to do yet, even as foreigner, without anybody to sign the papers for me) etc. I don't know if one can makes those district laws invalided by a national one, but if so, good luck while proceeding accross the indonesian justice system.

So if your outside Jakarta, Java or Bali, please don't take this law thing as a less serious concern. This is from my own experience and it plays a great role in my decision to finally not get marry here, even if the man in question is a wonderful heart and mind and I truly believe he will never play with his formal power to give shit to me. But I couldn't just accept to become so infantilised in laws and procedures.

[Kratos]

you make things too complicated sopie...If you love him and you believe he loves you back...those laws are nothin but a useless norms...